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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

(edited by wwbusch aka Buwo 22/06/2015 22:06:28)

Topic: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Hi Guys (and ladies)

this days we had the new frequency auction in germany for new bands (700 MHZ and some 900 MHZ and some 1800 MHZ), so i was very actively reading about the future of cellular networks and the different technologies.

as i was in april in Hong Kong on the big trades shows and i was wondering that all major gps tracking providers was selling now NEW 3G Devices i was thinking about a general topic: does buying of 3G hardware makes sence?

Well, just some samples:

the scandinavian countries will switch off 3G a few years before they switch off GSM.
Germany and France and Italy does not enhance 3G coverage. In Germany 4G coverage is even much better than 3G coverage.

What i am reading about other emerging markets with huge mass of km2, all of them want to use LTE because of better spectrum usage and better coverage.

I dont know any country who is not pushing everything into LTE(4G).

So does it makes sence to buy 3G hardware?

In my eyes not.

Why not staying with gsm?
Because in a few years most gsm networks will be switched off (i give GSM 6-8 years, than it will be switched off or just a basic network)

What do you think? How is this in your countries?

Lets start a discussion about future hardware :-)

WOlf.

Edit: link added
https://www.telegeography.com/products/ … pdate%2529

Politeness dictates it to write his name on a post
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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

wwbusch aka Buwo wrote:

NEW 3G Devices i was thinking about a general topic: does buying of 3G hardware makes sence?

1. NO
2. Just a few figures:
-  As usual vehicle tracker monthly send (upload to server) only about 8Mbyte ... 30mbyte information to monitoring center.
- Standard GSM/GPRS network has about  40 .. 50 kbit/sec (upload)
- 3G (UMTS) has about 80 ... 140 kbit/sec (upload) for mobile objects
   (stationary objects = upload up to 300 /.. 1000 kbit/sec)

3.

wwbusch aka Buwo wrote:

So does it makes sence to buy 3G hardware?
In my eyes not.

3.1 Correct.
3.2 Just as long as there are no such large packets of information.

4. Also dont forget that  the name 3G is the only of functionality description of wireless network.
In general 3G include Five different standards and most popular are:
- UMTS  (W-CDMA);
- CDMA2000;
- CDMA450;

GSM coverage map Latvia ((LMT- the largest GSM provider in Latvia)=
http://karte.lmt.lv/#lmt:lmt_internet_4g
(in right you can switch type of GSM network)

We also have CDMA450 in Latvia.
But I dont know the coverage.

www.guardmagic.com ;
www.tankercontrol.com;
www.twitter.com/guard_magic
Оборудование для мониторинга транспорта и стационарных обьектов. Датчики уровня топлива.
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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Hi GuardMagic,

seems that 4G is a bit behind :-)

Look at our coverage

LTE: (T-Mobile, best Provider in Germany)
http://www11.pic-upload.de/thumb/23.06.15/u4xaopt7sxdh.jpg

And 3G (T-Mobile)
http://www11.pic-upload.de/thumb/23.06.15/xaudym4r5vdv.jpg

(and they stopped enhancing 3G NodeB)
Wolf.

Politeness dictates it to write his name on a post
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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

wwbusch aka Buwo wrote:

seems that 4G is a bit behind :-

In general 4 G technology is a wireless Internet.

www.guardmagic.com ;
www.tankercontrol.com;
www.twitter.com/guard_magic
Оборудование для мониторинга транспорта и стационарных обьектов. Датчики уровня топлива.
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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

(edited by Baltika 25/06/2015 15:50:13)

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Hi Guy's,

Well ...if you like to send a photo ( for example ) than it is with GPRS a little slow ...esp if it is a "" few Mb pic ""

We also have many trackers running outside The Netherlands, some customers choose to have a local sim card, sometimes they return with a few Mb of data ..

With GPRS (9600bps ) It takes a while to get the data...with units with 3G it is here within a blick of the eye

regards
Baltika

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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Baltika wrote:

With GPRS (9600bps ) It takes a while to get the data...with units with 3G it is here within a blick of the eye

Yes of course, but ... is it so large difference for customer , how long time will take upload from memory to server: 10 seconds or 5 minutes?

www.guardmagic.com ;
www.tankercontrol.com;
www.twitter.com/guard_magic
Оборудование для мониторинга транспорта и стационарных обьектов. Датчики уровня топлива.
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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Hi Alexander,

I see some units are busy for many hours to ""pump/push"" all data to server.
Some of our customers use the GPS Tracker as a GPS datalogger . And some units send it message by message ...  sad

regards
Baltika

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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Harm hi,
Very strange that it take so long time.
Our devices (in your server) was = Mongiliat truck, trip to China for about two weeks, was about 15 ..20 minutes.
May be in device (about you are talking) was not optimal communication communication protocol .

www.guardmagic.com ;
www.tankercontrol.com;
www.twitter.com/guard_magic
Оборудование для мониторинга транспорта и стационарных обьектов. Датчики уровня топлива.
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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

We can store about 110 Thousands points in internal memory

www.guardmagic.com ;
www.tankercontrol.com;
www.twitter.com/guard_magic
Оборудование для мониторинга транспорта и стационарных обьектов. Датчики уровня топлива.
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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

guys, i was talking about "future" ;-)

We all know that GSM will be switched off after some years. So slowly we need to decide what new system we need to bet on.
And i believe that it is NOT 3G but LTE.
(so in my eyes it makes no sense to buy now 3G hardware because 3G networks will be even cut off earlier than GSM Networks)

Wolf

Politeness dictates it to write his name on a post
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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Hello Guys,

what about SIM's in the equipment? are still V5 working on 3G?  or they need a V6.x new version of card SIM?

thank you

--
Spread the AVL- World
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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Hi Small-GPRS,

of 3G you need "USIM" type SIM-Card (which is able for SIM-TOOLKIT functions.
(here in germany they ship since 2003 only USIM cards)

I dont think that any provider will ship still other simcards!

(http://www.justaskgemalto.com/en/commun … usim-cards)

Wolf.

Politeness dictates it to write his name on a post
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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Thanks  wwbusch aka Buwo

some AVL devices Stops transmitting w newer V6 SiM Cards,  that's why i'm asking about differences in protocol data from SIM-MODULE, Here we are still using both USIM and normal size SIM,  but when the SIM is labeled as V5, some AVL doesn't  attach to network

the only info i have is this PDF

http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/di … FULLTEXT02

--
Spread the AVL- World
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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Hi Wolf,

Thanks for starting an interesting topic.

In the US there are four major carriers - two of them are on SIM-less CDMA standard (Verizon and Sprint) and two of them on GSM-like standard (ATT and T-Mobile). ATT stopped activating GPRS devices in the beginning of last year and will completely stop their support by 2017. T-Mobile (being the smallest carrier) continues to activate GPRS boxes. So while GPRS is going away, there's very little talk about jumping to 4G/LTE directly. It appears 3G devices will be around for some time. Best coverage though now is provided by Verizon, and their rates are very competitive as well.

In Canada Rogers and Bell Canada are the largest providers and based on what I know, GPRS is almost dead with the majority of M2M activations on 3G.

Latin America is still very comfortable with GPRS, although in some countries (Mexico, Chile) there's an increasing talk about transitioning to 3G. Again, not many conversations about 4G as of yet.

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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Hi Sergey,

seems that Verizon has 98% LTE(4G) Coverage (which should be not the name for CDMA)
http://www.verizonwireless.com/landingpages/4g-lte/

Can you check that?
If this is true, even in the US LTE seems to be the future...

Wolf.

Politeness dictates it to write his name on a post
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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

I think 98% is an exaggeration, but not sure about the exact numbers. For now everyone is perfectly fine with 3G. I think there's at least 10 more years to be comfortable with it, unless your application is bandwidth hungry. Ultimately, of course 4G, 5G and nG will be forced upon us smile)

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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

so the next one stops invest into 3G, and its in RUSSIA ;-)

https://www.telegeography.com/products/ … 1-11628365

Beeline switching all 3G investment to 4G next year; parent nears tower sale
13 Nov 2015
RussiaRussia
Russia’s third largest cellco by subscribers Vimpelcom (Beeline) plans to cease all investment in 3G network development next year in favour of a complete switch to 4G LTE deployments, Telecompaper reported, quoting comments made by the cellco’s vice-president for corporate strategy Alexander Popovsky, who was speaking to local news site Telecom Daily. Popovsky said the decision comes in response to the explosive growth in LTE services and the expectation that most smartphones on the market next year will support LTE. With Beeline already covering over 50 Russian regions with LTE, it also announced recently that its 4G services now cover the Moscow Metro train network.
Beeline’s parent group Vimplecom Ltd, meanwhile, has reportedly sent a proposal to potential investors on the sale of its cellular towers, according to Popovsky, although terms have not been made public, while the group says it will suspend the divestment plan if it cannot secure a ‘reasonable’ price.

When we sell HW to customers we need to be sure that it is working fine minimum 5 years.
So i would sell the next 2 years GPRS Harware but than switch to LTE compatible HW, NOT 3G enabled HW

Wolf.

Politeness dictates it to write his name on a post
18

3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Hi,

We are looking to replace our 2G devices with one that is 3G capable for the Australian market. Australia is shutting down the 2G network this year.

We currently have 2 solutions options that we have sold for some years now - a low budget one, this is what needs replacing and one suitable for the rest, this one is fine.

The one we need to find a suitable 3G replacement for is for our low end requirement users - currently we purchase these (2G) for approximately US$40 each from China.

Is anyone able to advise me of a manufacturer where I may source a suitable 3G replacement that is around the same cost and also available as an OBD as well as a wired device? We do not care where we purchase them from as long as they are reliable and reputable.

Many thanks.

Onwards and Upwards!!
Knowledge, data & information is power!
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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

you will not find any device which supports ALL of the in australia used 3G frequencies (850MHZ, 900MHZ,2100MHZ). Especialy not for 40 USD and of cause not for OBD connector.

you should ask Zhang Yu from Gosafe if they can add a different chipset like this one (http://www.telit.com/products/product-s … 10-series/) to the hardware... chipset is a 7band 3G device and has all needed Bands implemented.

(their devices are at round about 70-80 usd, still good price for good HW)

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20

3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Thanks wwbusch aka Buwo.

Here in Australia we have been using CalAmp's HSDPA devices for the 3G network - Telco we will only use is Telstra 850MHz.

Gosafe, I've had a number of dealings with them and they seem very good, we will likely purchase from them at some point. However they are more price comparative with our CalAmp costs. Ave cost for CalAmp for us AU$200 and Gosafe is AU$210 - these prices are after and include AUS import duties/taxes. Geosafe had quoted us start price of US$110 for quantities <100.

I had spoken with eelink late last year and they were testing a new 3G model so we might have to wait until they have finalised - it failed their tests Nov/Dec last year they said. Their 2G devices have been fine just a little heavy on data at between 7-10MB on a 2 minute logging rate, unsure what it will be with 3G when available.

Many thanks for your assistance.

Onwards and Upwards!!
Knowledge, data & information is power!
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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

(edited by wwbusch aka Buwo 28/01/2016 13:28:11)

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

FleetPursuit,

contact Alex from CGUARD.RU (info@cguard.ru ) and ask for their OBD Tracker with 3G Moden,
It fits not total into your pricerange but nearly.

Enjoy
Wolf.

Politeness dictates it to write his name on a post
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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

2G network takes a lot of resources to support the small market like GPS tracking or car alarm. As the smart devices and mobile data traffic grew, the demand for faster speeds is increasing.Most of carrier are ready for the 2G sunset like Optus,telstra,AT&T,AIS ,Telenor, Singtel,StarHub etc.

So for this market mictrack have released some 3G/4G GPS Tracker. http://www.mictrack.com

But for most of Europe country the 2G is enough.

4G Cat M1 NB-IoT GPS Tracker Supplier.
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3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

Re: 3G or not 3G or LTE? A general thought...

a little update on this:

Ublox and Telic will have both a low cost (below 20 USD) chipset that has LTE-NB and 2G fallback.
So some of the HW manufactors i know are going to implement first samples...

Wolf.

Politeness dictates it to write his name on a post