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Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

Topic: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

Hello , I hope every body has a merry Christmas
During the last quarter 2017, we met a lot of Customer who are interested by hardware devices uploading vehicle information as kilometers , at what time the vehicle start and stop (trip) , error code from OBD , fuel consumption....
They could use Wialon but they do not want to have location on the web platform
Why ?  because in France a lot of big companies does not want to have conflict with employee and trade union about location or for renting car company they don't have the right to track their customer.
We have  the French CNIL ( commission about IT and freedom ) and we have a lot of law to protect employee and people.
But European Wialon dealer need to be careful because a part of these rules and law could be shared by the European Data Protection Supervisor (EDPS)  and a lot of European countries could have the same problem in 2018. https://edps.europa.eu/data-protection_en
In France ,for a lot of employee using tourism car even van ( as sales people or technical people or admin people ) they have the right to cancel the location at any time when they judge  that they are in private trip.
It exist different mean to cancel the location but the standard one well accepted is a button in the car.
It why we need a private device coming from the hardware to cancel the GPS location.
Gurtam has already develop a solution but this solution has some restriction : only with Rupela device  and necessity to use a Dallas key for private trip.
So we would like to improve it to use it with any device with a digital input available.
Now we are thinking that we could have good opportunity to develop more and more Wialon with big fleet  ( 500 to 1000 cars and more) if we could have 2 news functionalities in Wialon:

1)  In the Wialon CMS  the possibility to cancel the location for an account .
  So in this case we keep  the main functionalities of Wialon and the ability to calculate  kilometer by GPS  but without seeing a vehicle on the Map ,without address report ,but keeping geofence to have some alert by notification  , keep command like immobilization to stop a vehicle  but  without "Message" in the menu  because we can see GPS coordinate with it.
This is the market for : renting company , insurance company , fleet management company.
They only want  to know when the car is running , how many time , how many kilometer ,other sensor information and for insurance company  ecodriving information but without position
For your information a competitor like Quartix offer already this possibility. Just for give you an idea ,  in 2 month ( September and October)  we have loosed 2 customers with a total of 100 vehicles because  these 2 customer were too afraid to have location !
Following Solutrans show in lyon in November we are in touch with 2 new big customers with the same request : NO LOCATION.
.
2) About Wialon with location ,we understand that Gurtam want to keep the sensor "private mode" as it is, but we would like Gurtam add a second sensor private mode that have the function to cancel the location only when the sensor is activated.
If he does not work with you App Driving log book it is not a big problem for the moment but if you can in the future it will be great.
This kind of device would be mandatory more and more in the future .
This is the market for car in small and medium private company and also in public company.
In 2018  a lot of French big Cities with a lot of car are interested by Tracking solution but with mandatory Private mode.

I would like to have opinion of other Wialon reseller in Europe . As they probably know , Tomtom telematic  Quartix and other competitor have already different solution . But we are also in competition  with new operator as ARVAL ( a renting car company subsidiary of BNP)  who propose telematic platform without location
Thanks you for your attention
Georges From Geoloc Conseils France

Georges  Geoloc
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Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

yeahh, good idea

Politeness dictates it to write his name on a post
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Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

Hi, yes, we have same situation in our country with big clients...

Locating things
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Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

locationGPS wrote:

Hi, yes, we have same situation in our country with big clients...

Hello , as i know you are actif in Spain and i see that your big customer are also fearful about location
so what do you thinks about my proposal regarding 2 things:
1) in the CMS the possibility to cancel the location on the map for every véhicule for the big customer too fearfull
2) authorize the location but with the help of  a button in the vehicule connected on a GPS device  input that cancel the location when the buton is on private trip
Georges

Georges  Geoloc
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Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

wwbusch aka Buwo wrote:

yeahh, good idea

Hello Wolf
I know by Xavier  that you have already talk on this point . Sure that Big German company  could have the same

Georges

Georges  Geoloc
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Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

Hi GE, correct Spain, so same situation as you..

1) yes, but also adding times option; there are clients with the aim to see routes during working time and no routes in prvate times (Km yes).

2) Correct, Input enabled as a sensor private/public. We know do it with the ignition so we work on device as SW is not set...maybe you can offer this option by now to get your clients.

Tom Tom mierda smile

Locating things
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Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

Another super flexible "adon" could be a "cancel location data between xx:xx and xx:xx on days xyz" (but i am sure its heavy server load to analyse each message for this)

Wolf.

Politeness dictates it to write his name on a post
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Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

Hi there,

First of all, I would like to wish you all a FANTASTIC YEAR 2018 full of success with your business and full of hapiness in your personal life wink

About private trips, as Georges told you, here in France, there is a huge demand from companies which need datas from trips (start and arrival time, kms, driving time, fuel consumption etc...) but who don't want to know "from and to" the vehicle was driven.

I guess that is the new way of "tracking and tracing" in France and visibly in Europa but without "tracing" infos.

My french friend Georges has well resumed the situation and I have no doubt that the development team will find a great solution "comme d'habitude"  wink

Happy New Year dear Gurtam Collegues !
Hope to have the chance to see you this year at the Gurtam Conference (first good resolution of the year smile !

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Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

(edited by GE 02/01/2018 18:29:41)

Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

wwbusch aka Buwo wrote:

Another super flexible "adon" could be a "cancel location data between xx:xx and xx:xx on days xyz" (but i am sure its heavy server load to analyse each message for this)

Wolf.

with the screen shot

Georges  Geoloc
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Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

Hi, 1700 client object need this
800 client object need this

any advance?

thanks

Locating things
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Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

locationGPS wrote:

Hi, 1700 client object need this
800 client object need this
any advance?
thanks

I can add this information. On the french market we have also a big competitor. It is OCEAN , in fact OCEA was bought by the main french telecom company ORANGE. This company propose tracking without location
youcan see on the web site  https://www.ocean.fr/offres
best regards
Georges

Georges  Geoloc
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Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

What do they offer? just km, rpm..and data in report with no traking or streets¿

Locating things
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Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

locationGPS wrote:

What do they offer? just km, rpm..and data in report with no traking or streets¿

As yo can see in my photo but it in french langage so I will translate for you

    kilometer in private mode and in working mode ( for the french regulation URSAF)

      using rate of the véhicule  ( it mean how the vehicule is used in %)

        follow up leasing contract

          follow up  maintenance operations

            cost of using  and CO2

              compatibility with fuel card Total

                eco driving information

                The share holder of Ocean who is ORANGE has a big court case with worker regarding "geolocalization" so now big company like ORANGE  are very careful on this point
                best regards

                Georges  Geoloc
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                Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                well. that service would be great...not support at all!

                Locating things
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                Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                Thank everyone for the interest in the feature and sharing your thoughts.

                This idea is clear. We understand the importance of the feature, but at the same time, it is difficult to develop.
                I added this proposal to our backlog. If we have any news, we will let you know.

                Maksim Shvets
                Business Analyst
                Gurtam
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                Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                shve wrote:

                Thank everyone for the interest in the feature and sharing your thoughts.

                This idea is clear. We understand the importance of the feature, but at the same time, it is difficult to develop.
                I added this proposal to our backlog. If we have any news, we will let you know.

                Dear Maksim
                We understand that this improvement need some work. But may be you can proceed by step:
                1) add the fonction to cancel the localisation when the flag ( sensor Private Trip) is actif , it is not a lot of work and it is very urgent for French and other European  customer
                2) add a possibility to choose how to cancel in the véhicule panel ( by driver , by time ..) I
                3) Add the possibility in the CMS to cancel the Localisation for the account ( need of big companies)

                So I am sure that this improvement could be very profitable for Gurtam and all your European partenaire
                We cannot stay with major competitor like Tomtom ,Ocean (Orange) ,Masternaut , Quartix with no solution during  the year 2018
                Thank you
                Georges

                Georges  Geoloc
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                Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                Hi,
                I was right now 3 hours today meeting with one client with around 1k objects to contract us...

                I agree with Georges...I cannot compete with Tom Tom or any other provider that will go for those type of clients.

                And yes, this is a MUST for them.

                Thanks

                Locating things
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                Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                Dear Partners,

                I have good news for you. We have been starting to analyze task about "Private Trip". There is a big chance that we will implement a simple solution to solve your problem. We will add the flag to the unit settings and will use the sensor "Private Mode" to skip location and GPS coordinates. So, you could compete with others operator.

                Our solution is the next:
                1. Location and GPS coordinates will be skipped in each place in WH (reports, messages, etc). You will not be able to use SDK to get location and GPS coordinates.

                2. You could get reports with all information what you need (without location and GPS coordinates): driver bindings, sensor information (!!!except information about "lat" and "long"!!!), etc.
                Could you give some cases when you need to get a geofence notification? It is a little bit strange why do you want to hide location, but at the same time, you want to see a geofence notification.

                3. Private trips will be skipped on tracks. It is mean that if a track is contained a private trip, we will show it as a straight line (from/to location which we know last).

                Please, share your opinion, do you agree with the proposed solution? Maybe, you could add some your points which will be important.   

                Best regards,

                Maksim Shvets
                Business Analyst
                Gurtam
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                Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                Hello,

                Great news! dont know how great...I hope it does not take too much to have it ready!

                Ok to points 1,2 and 3:

                Important point:  basic user should be able to enable/disable this option as the own driver must choose their times (If he has rights for it)

                Important point2: it must be possible to schedule this option, I mean, user should set dates and times where there will be the private trips;

                why? not to make it always manually way. think that worker will set its own timetable just one time.
                Also it must be "open" time table; count daily non working hours, weekends, summer or christmas.
                Also think that every worker can have private trips at night or during day.

                important point3: Make tool EASY, this tool will be used by workers not used to platforms AND from smartphone..

                thanks

                regards

                Locating things
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                Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                btw. Dates??????? do you think it could be ready?

                Locating things
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                Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                Hello Maksim
                It Is a  very good News. I agree with your proposal. Yes when the trip Is in private  mode géofence canot be used
                I thanks you for taking in account this requiremnent for the european market
                I hope that after this first step comming son you will shedule the next step i  had talk about
                Georges

                Georges  Geoloc
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                Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                GE locationGPS ,

                At the current time, we have limited human resources and time for implementation this feature. That's why we prefer the initial idea: to correlate a private trip with a value of a sensor. To launch a private mode, your client can use a separate sensor for a private trip in WH, a driver binding sensor or a random status from WiaTag. So users will have an ability to use private mode, and it should be more accurate than manually edited modes. Also, the case with a scheduled private mode is more difficult to implement, so its' development is doubtful.
                But we want to help you with your problem. That's why we proposed you the solution which we can do in the future updates.

                Could this solution give you a chance to compete with other operators?

                Best regards,

                Maksim Shvets
                Business Analyst
                Gurtam
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                Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                Hello,

                I understand about limitations on this development but schedule would be necessary.

                As this is focus for big companies, on this kind there will be a long variety of drivers...from a worker in constructon till CTO of the company.

                The idea is that in the begining of installing the device in the cars they would set their times when the trip will be pulbic and private trips.

                If we make them do it everytime, everyday...the problem is that they will click the "private" but not later the public so trackings will not be set and client will tell it is not useful.

                Actually there is this developed with Teltonika in their APP btw...https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.teltonika.btapp&hl=es

                btw, what do you mean about sensor??? I created a task to block device, device sends the sensor value and works BUT the problem that I have is that when it is via GPRS and device is not on GPRs it does not change the status.
                If I set by SMs is not afordable due to the price per object..

                thanks

                Locating things
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                Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                i think, having the "brand new option" to disable storage of GPS location by a "sensor" is already a super cool function.
                In a next step it would be cool to have some "time schedule", but .... somewhen in the future!

                Wolf.

                Politeness dictates it to write his name on a post
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                Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                Re: Private Trip and cancel location in Wialon

                ok, step by steop then.

                question.....if you create as a sensor, can I then create a task to make enable this "sensor"?

                I understand yes, correct?

                thanks

                Locating things