1

Fuel thieves

Topic: Fuel thieves

Hello,

We have normally lot of request about fuel robbery.

We are not installing the typical technoton, epsilon and so on Hw.

We get all info from can lines.

question; is it possible to know when there is a fast level change???? the info from CAN line is absolut and some times FLS...

Thanks

Regards

Locating things
2

Fuel thieves

Re: Fuel thieves

Main Problem will be: Fuel theft is typical done very slowly during truck/engine is driving, or when engine is stoped and than you can not get canbus data.
So canbus data is in 99% of cases the wrong way. You need FLS which also detects fuel level if engine is off (and additional flow sensor if you want to find other ways of theft)

Wolf.
(i dont know where you are located, in russia its heavy problem and Wialon fits perfect to detect, here in germany its very rare problem and mostly only if you have russian drivers ;-))))

Politeness dictates it to write his name on a post
3

Fuel thieves

Re: Fuel thieves

smile

Here in Spain is on fashion....spanish, rumanian, bulgarian, polish... every one..it seems they do not know petrol stations sell fuel!

They go with a van with 1m3 deposit inside. go with a pipe and a a small engine to 12v connected to van. in 5 min. they can steal 600 litrs easily.

that is why clients want the fast drop of the tank fuel.

when you say FLS I understand CAN_FLS...which is useful as you know....what do you exactly mean?

the problem is that even having the FLS info it is not accuracy and data are no always good.

Any idea how to control it by notification?

Locating things
4

Fuel thieves

Re: Fuel thieves

CAN for fuel level is bad solution

Eduard Vald / GoGPS Service
www.gogps.eu
Skype: tivald.ee
5

Fuel thieves

Re: Fuel thieves

locationGPS wrote:

smile

They go with a van with 1m3 deposit inside. go with a pipe and a a small engine to 12v connected to van. in 5 min. they can steal 600 litrs easily.

that is why clients want the fast drop of the tank fuel.

Any idea how to control it by notification?

For mentioned method of fuel theft I propose also to look for dedicated sensor for fuel inlet (fuel cap).
There are several models on European market.

6

Fuel thieves

Re: Fuel thieves

Hi,
you mean this? : http://prntscr.com/hnmfbx

not useful; if it is glued they use this: http://prntscr.com/hnmfr8 or this http://prntscr.com/hnmg04 and they open it.

if it is with screws they just drill it with this : http://prntscr.com/hnmgma + pipe + http://prntscr.com/hnmhea with hole so they make the hole with no sound and get the fuel.

thieves...but no idiots..

Do you think the only option I have is the technoton sensors?? making the whole in the fuel tank which we are not very attracted to make?

thanks

Locating things
7

Fuel thieves

Re: Fuel thieves

Carlos from flexgps has a solution that is connected to the build in fuel level sensor with auto calibration... connectet somewhere at the fusebox... very cool...
Wolf

Politeness dictates it to write his name on a post
8

Fuel thieves

Re: Fuel thieves

locationGPS
hi, please send me an email... wolfgang@hilltronic.de

Wolf

Politeness dictates it to write his name on a post
9

Fuel thieves

Re: Fuel thieves

Hi, can you give me contact please? do not know them...
thanks

Locating things
10

Fuel thieves

Re: Fuel thieves

locationGPS wrote:

Hi,
you mean this? : http://prntscr.com/hnmfbx

not useful; if it is glued they use this: http://prntscr.com/hnmfr8 or this http://prntscr.com/hnmg04 and they open it.

if it is with screws they just drill it with this : http://prntscr.com/hnmgma + pipe + http://prntscr.com/hnmhea with hole so they make the hole with no sound and get the fuel.

thieves...but no idiots..

Do you think the only option I have is the technoton sensors?? making the whole in the fuel tank which we are not very attracted to make?

thanks

Hello, I have send you by e-mail the link to the RFID based fuel tank inlet (cap) sensor.
In my previous business had sold hundreds of them... Good features and quality.
Good luck!

11

Fuel thieves

Re: Fuel thieves

If you ask the "eastern european" partners, they will tell you hundred of stories how the employes get the fuel without opening the fuel tank inlet ;-)
Here our customers with heavy construction mashines tells us, that they on weekends even do not close the fuel tank inlet because if its closed they distroy it (ok, than you would get an alarm) but you still have costs of a few hundred euros for the fuel tank inlet (caterpillar for example).

Its really a complicated theme. But if you read in russian forum, nobody use such. They all use FLS and ImpulseFLS or FlowMeter...
Must have a reason...

Wolf.

Politeness dictates it to write his name on a post
12

Fuel thieves

Re: Fuel thieves

ok, I saw the HW XMEtra...if thieves see this they will steal through "aforador", where the pump sensor is...

I need to control the inside liquid...any other sensor can be "jumped".
Thanks otherwise..

Locating things
13

Fuel thieves

Re: Fuel thieves

locationGPS wrote:

ok, I saw the HW XMEtra...if thieves see this they will steal through "aforador", where the pump sensor is...

I need to control the inside liquid...any other sensor can be "jumped".
Thanks otherwise..

The challenge is relay complicated one, I see only 2 ways to became 100% satisfied : 1. Switch engine to LPG fuel. 2 .Replace Diesel trucks with  Electric trucks in the future, though I propose the battery packs will became subject of theft...
Anyway I wish you to find the suitable and affordable solution.
Best regards.

14

Fuel thieves

Re: Fuel thieves

Hello
as anti-theft solution you can have a look to my website  www.anti-siphonage.com
In my point of view there are 3 mains solutions:
1) Detection of the open cap by replacing the regular cap by an electronic cap  ( zipper for exemple conected to an input of the GPS device  and connected  to an horn on the truck . it is very good solution again  theft on parking and also useful to control driver. Here you have a real time alarm
2) Détection on the regular fuel gauge by a device like VDO . The point is seting with gauge impedance . You have 2 output : one for real time alarm and one analog output for fuel control in wialon. The point is that you have the alam when the rober has take-off 20 liters
3) add a separate FLS (a lot of provider)  or Change the regular FLS by a compatible FLS from Genesis.
So you can have an accurate control of the fuel using but not always a real time alarm ( depend of the GPS device setting and Wialon setting)
I hope it can help  you

Georges

Georges  Geoloc
15

Fuel thieves

Re: Fuel thieves

anybody interested in combined fuel theft + video recordings?

IP-camera is installed for tank monitoring

system detects fuel events and save only meaningful video onboard at SD-card. Every video starts predetermined time BEFORE  fuel theft due to bufferization.
Collected video will be uploaded via WIFI network (when available) to the FTP server.  You can assign it with Wialon reports, I believe.

Sounds fantastic? No smile
Will be more expensive than GPS tracker + sensor? Yes.

It is GPS tracker + extra ECU +sensors +  IP videocamera (or several).

Датчики расхода и уровня топлива, системы бортового взвешивания, контроля температуры и другое оборудование для телематики
Manufacturer of fuel level/consumption sensors, onboard weighing, temperature sensors, displays.... etc.
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16

Fuel thieves

Re: Fuel thieves

let me add few more drops of liquid onto this one.

The whole idea of the algorithm in Wialon at the moment is - combining, how the fuel actually is spent (FLS delta) and how it should be spent (math consumption).

So you shall start with getting fuel level first. CANbus is a good solution for that if the client wants to save some money - of course the data is not accurate and of course there are some limitations (like disappearing of the data while the engine is stopped and so on). BUT - that is at least something. Another way - install the FLS. Usually the prices differ ALOT - starting with 50-60 dollars / unit for cheapest solutions on the market and going way higher. To my mind the best way in choosing HW for that (CAN, FLS and whatever) is to contact experts - Wolf has a correct proposal to contact somebody from eastern Europe. I would advice you few guys if you contact me directly and they agree to give you their contacts. Send me a PM here or e-mail to serd@gurtam.com